latest on each referendum vote that took place today and what is next for president morsi and the ongoing protests in egypt. we will see you again tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] . .

so, in those areas, citizens are coming together, trying to fill the vacuum or the gatt that is being created. i thought that was very interesting because syrians do not have experience governing themselves. since 1962, the state has been highly centralized.

the state to maintain control of everything in syria even if you permit to apply for a open a store. you have to check first with security forces. people in syria have to do this very well with almost no funding or very little funding. they also have to operate in abnormal circumstances. there is aleppo the city and also the periphery. they make up the province.

all of the periphery has been liberated. when i was in aleppo i missed the hustle and bustle of the city. the first thing i did their was i was hosted by the revolutionary transition. they come together into what they can to fill this void. we took a tour of the city. most of the shops where closed down. some were not. i wanted to find out that was trying to function as a transitional government structure.

to be honest with you, i am using a lot though as a case in point. to be honest, i thought i was going to meet with simple people. the conflict has not yet come to an end. we were pleasantly surprised. the operation we encountered was a lot more specific than we thought. they held elections. the chairman was a highly educated person with a ph.d. in engineering from france. dick also started to all different committees. -- they also started 12 different committees.

judiciary, committee on finance, and they were working on a number of products. i love today to talk about those projects those councils are working on. >> can we say a few words between the relationship of this council and the military? what we specifically referred to as the free syrian army? >> a few months ago they found it coalesce. it is headed up by the inspector general. all of those groups do maintain their separate identities. they are all fighting under the banner of this council.

i would say the relationship is characterized it has two characteristics, if corroborative one and a competitive one. if it were not for that there would be no federated areas. everyone depends on the fsa to keep the assad regime from entering the city. that is the cooperative aspect. this is going into the future. you have an emergent civil society that is trying to govern this and provide basic goods and services. when i was an uphill i saw piles upon piles of trash. no one is picking up the trash.

you have civilians tried to run their city. you also have guys with guns. guns are a source of power. i also see them as also competing about who will have the upper hand in the city. both the military council and the security are underfunded. civilians been to be in power to provide more and more services so there legitimacy can be further increase. it is competitive long term. >> you were in aleppo earlier than the time the council was formed.

you are in smaller cities of syria. how is what you witnessed in terms of the relationship with the military compared to what muhammed witnessed an of bell. >> i think anytime they talk about the lack of the syrian people this a great chance for me. the first time i was in damascus. last january i was in damascus. one of those days i was the person responsible for the

streets of the revolutionary youth and different suburbs. after he told me what this is like, i asked him so how was it a year ago? >> before the revolution. >> i did not believe that kind of organization could have them over a couple of months. he said there was none. i did not know any kind of internal organization we could build on. we struggled for a few months. we woke up bonding in damascus.

the regime that killed. most of the places in the north , there were huge chunks of land that became liberated. this is 200,000 people. it is in the northeastern part of aleppo. it is of strategic importance. i stayed there about 10 days. later i went up to istanbul.

as we know, there is very little experience. they tackle the issues or other issues cleaning streets to other things. the first night i arrived we saw that the people are cleaning the streets. i later learned the day they prepared to resist they rotate this with an eye witness a few more times during my state. withinhe council's,

these days, i went to different council meetings. the main thing they're trying to accomplish was to get an agreement on the list of the council members. it has three components. one of then they called revolutionary. they organized the protest. the second coupon and they call the teachers. they are businessmen and others. they finance some of the needs.

they also participated. they are older. one extra point is that they had communication channels. these three components after a couple of weeks of discussions they tell me today is about the first victory. obviously, it was not only the council.

also the issues they had to tackle. >> it is very interesting. you had an appointed one, people coming together. iny're coming together leadership. i think that is an interesting pattern. one could find an interesting sociological elements. what are the challenges facing these councils in terms of long chains sustainability? they are just taking the initiative.

it sounds like operating according to what is institutionally appropriate. the u.s., there will be a friend of syrian meeting. reports are is that the u.s. is preparing to recognize transitional governments if one were out of this new revolutionary coalition. if there is a transitional government that is recognized, what will the relationship be to these councils that are more ad hoc? are these local? council local do they have to be -- are these local council sustainable?

do they have to be accountable for the structures that may emerge? what is the sustainability in the future of these councils? >> they can build their relations. people have to survive. during my stay both in aleppo and italy you see every day, especially if you could to center aleppo, it is bombing. it is a warm toward situation -- war torn situation. different italians were able to unite. one of the first issues was to

get them out of the city. it is much more likely that you get bombed. based on they got bombed. -- later on they got bombs. the first challenge is that the city has to be able to defend themselves. how are they going to be able to sustain anything meaningful? >> this is a very good question. whether or not the civilian efforts are sustainable, it depends on whether or not the civilians are empowered to meet the needs are not.

i work with a supreme assembly. what i know about the council is not based on my filtered to allow bela lot of. -- based on my relationship with aleppo. one of the main challenges they are facing is this empowerment components. they have ambitious projects. in the security committee in of did not want the fsa to control the liberated areas.

to do this they appointed a brigadier general. i met with him. he wanted to start a community. this needs to be introduced. syria was a police state. not a single one of them was for community policing. the problem is that they did not even have resources to buy uniforms. never mind salaries to retain them until after the transition. that is one of the projects they were working on. they're also working on a story in the court system said that if the fsa captures eighth thug

they would not be executed. there would be due process as much as possible given the circumstances that would be a guarantee against human rights violations. they're working with judges. the funding for that is also an issue. they were working on a small medical committee. then they expanded the medical committee into a medical council. it that council alone, i was able to visit two of them. one of the hospitals had been leveled by the assad regime.

i am syrian. i grew up in syria. i know that we're not even allowed to talk about government results. he would have gotten into big trouble. people were not allowed to get the government on a regular basis. all of a sudden, i see civilians operating. the harsh level was the empowerment. this aspect about the relationship is essential. those councils are already accounted for in the national coalition of revolutionary forces.

there are 14 seats from the 14 different governors that are part of this national coalition. one council from each city is already part of this group. we are automatically extending this. the only crucial part that would be to be taken care of is the power. >> you are suggesting that what it takes to empower the people on the ground to organize themselves is money or to buy uniforms. it in my thinking what is more important for empowerment for a country in a fundamental

revolution is legitimacy. can i ask each of you to address this question of how are these civilian formations on the ground in syria able to build legitimacy? are they successful at it? what sources are they trying on? it's a religious? is it they're respected elders? is it a person with technical expertise? does it matter? presumably there would be concerned about giving both the leader legitimacy because of his historical authority in the

community. maybe there would be a tendency to vote in a tour of process. how would you relate to this question as a stand on the grounds and looking forward? >> i can tell what i have seen. everyone i was able to ask questions was with the same member. these democracies as far as i can see is a valid fact that you can argue about what the kevernment is going to be ligh

and whether laws will be adapted but individuals are very well protected. under the circumstances, it is not possible. they convened a city council and the turkish city -- in a turkish city. they selected 24 people. most were able to make it there. who ever is in the minds of the revolution have good relations with the part of the society. that is what they did. they have a plan right now.

as far as i can see, whether we can recognize it, this is going to escort the station. >> is it the military that has the legitimacy? >> they do. in the minds and eyes of those during the actual work on the ground. the fsa were doing relief for. they were operating bakeries. one of my main object was to speak with as many civilians as

was possible. they respected the fsa. they wanted the council to leave the transition. the view from the ground is very different. how would you normally think analytically about the situation? there is a huge issue with cooking gas. if you can provide cooking gas, meeting needs can treat legitimacy. history can also gain new legitimacy.

the people were underground for so long. a lot of them used to organize protests. they use to function. we are at a further stage in the organization that is taking place. instead of local committees organized protests, they are trying to expand the services they are providing. this did happen. to see signs that.

the camion means and what you have done. without funding none of that can happen. >> let's open it up to questions from the audience. we have one back here. is there some with a microphone? why does he stand up and speak stand up- don't you and speak loudly? [inaudible]

>> do we need to repeat the question for the cameras? yes. >> i asked about the role of women in these new efforts their pain currently in the space available for them in the future. >> i have seen in both places there was no women members council. it is very conservative. i participated in damascus as well. i have seen women taking stages.

other than that, the council meetings i did not see women. >> things are developing on two levels. did they are developing on the ground in terms a civilian groups and developing politically speaking at a national level. if you take the new umbrella that was formed in doha, women are playing a significant role.

vice president of the coalition is a prominent activists in syria. women in syria, i held a special admiration for them. i know a lot of men in the early stages of the revolution were concerned about their physical safety and did not take place. i know that women are playing a role but more of behind the scenes.

in terms of women sitting on councils, the council had no women. i would not say because the ones to marginalize women. -- it was too large allies women. it is highly dangerous to perform this kind of job right now and sit on councils and go back and forth between the occupied areas and the liberated areas. i am hopeful things will change in the future. it distressing democratic values. a very important thing. s i of the committee's i was on, i said why the

introducing yourself to that. iless than a month later, there was another round of elections. i am hoping the future will be a lot more promising. as things stand now, the country midst of war.he met everything is far from perfect. >> council meetings were taking place at 10:00 p.m. going until morning. there is a lot of electricity. it is dangerous.

>> thank you. i am wondering if you could talk about the composition of the local councils and the extent to which there is membership across sects. today and offer help to a post- assad syria -- do they offer help to a post-assad syria? >> in albab they treat different segments. the elders were able to talk to the regime until they left the

city here in july. were the ones that discuss how they can leave the city. italy, their city council they were knocked able to actually elect a council. even though forces left north of italy, north italy is much more dangerous than aleppo.

>> there is this secretary and fragmentation in syria. -- there is the secretar fragmentation in syria. syrians may be of the same religion but to live in the countryside bursa's the urban center. -- but who live in the countryside or urban center. is it a possible strategy to push through this council's tax ?

>> in areas that are majority muslim, the majority on the council are muslim. like most of the people of the town are christian. it basically depends on the demographics. i met. they have liberator's there. they have their own language.

they have their own traditions. it is not arabs that have run into that. in terms of city and the periphery, the council were from the city of the council itself. the majority of the fsa people were from the countryside. the colonel was from the city. >> is a correct than to say people are organizing themselves into governing councils with in their particular ethnic or religious community/ >> it is a bit tricky.

the majority of the population is christian. this is not true for everywhere. different sects coexist. >> this used to be the main opposition. the last meeting that we attended in dhaka about 25

sermon -- doha, about 25% of the coalition were minorities. the minorities are playing a role. the first ambassador following the recognition that it was extended from france, the first ambassador was a syrian alawite figure. >> we have more questions. >> thank you for a very fascinating discussion. it talked about the relationship between the civilian opposition and armed rebels. both?ou speak to th

>> there were 15 battalions. the fsa were part of the station in the city. this is part of the city. they hosted me. these are the people who live in the cities and who have been there for maybe centuries. at the same time, the same member of fsa ands brother was in the council.

there was a sharia court in the city. these are basically consider it. >> civilian councils are trying. civilian councils are trying to wrestle more and more control from the fsa.

the relationship as cooperative. in large depends on whether or not it meet that. i was able to meet with the commanders. i met with the supporters. not 10[inaudible] are either criminals gangs trying to take care of

the chaos or the small extreme group that is well funded. majority are severly under funded. i met to the brigade commander with not enough food to go around. there's also that aspect but who is funded and who is not. they're trying to portray themselves as the ones that are leading the fighting in aleppo. they immediately rejected the coalition.

this was reported. i got in touch with the commanders. the main fighting group in a lot of but of a video. they do not represent us. they said we recognize the council. i think of them as moderates.

even their experience and food shortages. this is very well funded. this logic depends on whether 0% can receive reports. >> right now and maybe the case that people in syria may be compelled to be included in a groove that is able to provide resources because there is immediate needs. that doesn't mean those allegiances will maintain that in future syria.

if you look at egypt, we have no idea what is going to happen. assistance may be immediately up use. it does not mean, we need to still think about what would be important for syria and syrian interests. >> in east to be done. -- if need to be done. >> thank you. i am. ngo executive. -- i am an ngo executive. christians and alawite are very concerned about what happens

when things change. they have been seen to be and often are in the realm of the regime. what did you find? are they participating in the council's? how are the people who have been ofart of the regime's aura protection now competing since they said they were again stickball's? -- against it? >> it can be tricky. when they are shifting allegiances, i know for example

that some of them are not only participating in councils. some are but is a fading in the battle itself. even think about the battalion of the messiah. and lots of them, even when they shift allegiances they did not go public. this is understandable. that would have huge consequences. i personally work with christian activists. one of my best friends is an alawite activist whose mother was killed. the family was split.

i cannot say that when that happens we will be a lot of you to be a sticking place. there is a delicate balance. they will declare some of that. >> this has been discussed over and over again.

we are at the turning point. when are they going to get involved? we cannot go into them. for many reasons they want to stay away until that moment. they have to take steps to have some kind of leverage. >> the spokesperson for the ministry is affected. we are seeing more and more of that happening. they tend to keep a low profile. >> did these council states and

intention to out reached to different communities or did they have any protection strategies? >> thank you. this is a very interesting aspect. the council in aleppo, one at the meetings i attended, they were talking about reaching out to the armenian christian. i was happy with that. they were also trying to do conflict resolution elsewhere. not just in about zero but elsewhere.

we do not just in aleppo -- not just in aleppo but elsewhere. there is a conflict between the different groups. because of that the border crossing was not functional. they wanted the border crossing to be opened. they sent the number of their members over. there was also a tension between arabs and kurds. ng as ain negotiatio mediator so that dispute can be settled.

>> question? >> thank you. we have talked about outside influences in terms of the west. when you talk about the saudis, can you perhaps give us your thoughts on u.s. position relative to its relation with the saudis? >> the ones that are providing the most assistance are not the saudis. the saudis are also providing. they are playing a bigger role. this tends to be exaggerated.

i will share this with you. thisi would say for example, one fighting group, the main fighting group, sufficient for one day's worth. that is why we have nothing but complete liberation of the city. it has been extended, but it is very meager that it borders on basically, relatively speaking, the other parties of the conflict of the regime, their

power is huge. relatively speaking it would border on nothing, and that is why -- i will share something else. it was the first month of fighters, and the person share that with me, and he was in a major leadership position, he said i will be honest with you, it is the first month we received a salary, $150 so that people can support their families because they'll have wives and kids and so forth, and i am not sure about next month. although this has been going on for 20 months, that was the first month they have received salary. he said we have $150 this month, but i do not know about next month. >> are they giving money to the civilian counsel? >> -- the civilian council is

trying to draw on, for example, rich syria, like the syrian council internationally. i would not say they are the main social support for the council. they're working on support from anyone. >> when you go into the city, there is a fight going on at places, and i was able to take a peek at their guns and what kind of guns they are using. i do not know much about guns, but people who know and the way

they look. it is supposedly the most important battle. it will be amazing the difference in momentum, and these people did not have anything to fight for. second, the value talks of syria is on the ground. every part of the city and country, the understanding and thatption is that's outsiders are helping just enough to contribute to stabilizing. it does not just leave them abandoned pier y.

it is basically a recipe for disaster and to drag on the war even longer. >> we do have a question here. then another one in the back. >> thank you. i am from jordan. we know and jordan there is a very healthy smuggling culture under the assad regime. how were they doing now, and if they are doing well, are they getting legitimacy? think you. -- thank you. >> in fact, there was a smuggling culture not just in the southern part of the country ebanon.rdan but also levit i do not have a lot of information about that.

i will gesture what i know. the conditions of the border, it is basically very dangerous. i know the regime employed hundreds of snipers to make sure no more high-level defections occur, because it is easy for the officials that want to defect to go through jordan. it's a lot more convenient. a lot of snipers have been deployed. defecting is very dangerous. basically the whole economy, not just the smuggling aspect, has been devastated, especially the value of the syrian pound. in 2010, the syrian town was 46

syrian towns for a dollar. it is now 87 to 93. it depends whether or not you can find the hard currency. so i am not sure what they're doing exactly right now, but i know it is like committing suicide. any suspicious behavior of the border would be met with a barrage of bullets. >> could you address this question? i assume you mean smuggling to the rebels? to go right. -- >> right. as i understand, it is very murky in terms of getting jobs -- getting things across. what is leading the fighters for is money more than weapons. >> i thought you were talking about the culture of smuggling.

ok. exactly. >> what i know, the leaders that i was able to talk to, i was always one of the first questions asking how they get the guns? there were a couple of different answers to that. one is that they mostly by from the regime. -- buy from the regime. the smuggling of the guns, i know. it was very murky, so i do not have the first witnessing on smuggling, but apparently also the turkey border is being used. >> if you want to zero in on the

smuggling of weapons, i have information i can share from hear from damascus. so three-four times more difficult to smuggle guns into damascus. basically ak47's. until a few months ago, even jordanian authorities were -- they control the borders pretty tightly. it was very difficult. that is why it cost three-four times as much as that would cost in northern syria. this trickle of things was there. the second source was from corrupted civilian officials. all of them are corrupted.

again, maybe i should not say that. anyway, buying from the corrupt officials. the third thing, and this is the main source of weapons, basically the ability they picked up after the battle. this has been a major resource or source of all the stops. >> we have a question in the back of the room. hi, there. can you hear me now? thank you. my name is rebecca hopkins. thank you for speaking. i was hoping you could talk a little bit about what, if any coordination is occurring between the which counsels and regional councils and across the country. thank you. >> just 10 days ago the councilman conceded to integration of the city and the

countryside. so now the council represents the entire province. so if you think about that as a case in point, the more the councils are in power, the more they have the ability to reach out to more regions and incorporate them into the council. again, 10 days ago, the city was incorporated. we were speaking with one of our main contacts, and they said the deal came through today and good news for us. >> the other question is, can the council connect and work with the council in damascus?

also, is there a council in damascus? >> damascus is completely different. they're closing in on the regime. it is still completely different. 70 percent of the city is under opposition. in damascus, it is different. so the dynamic is different. however, the more they are consistently losing ground. >> is there coordination between the different governments? >> ok, so the council said we want to make sure this is a good example that can inspire the other council in syria and turn into an example for the rest of the council to emulate in defense that they want to be include city in reaching out to others and so forth.

yes, they wanted to turn it into an example to be emulated, but this is all work in progress right now. >> i do not have anything to add to that. i visited a few cities and was able to witness those, but the one thing i might add is there was a corporation, but other than that, -- >> i thought you had a question? the of a question here. did you have a hand? take thesee questions to the other, and then have it turn close the session.

>> my name is mike beard. i am wondering what advice would you get to the obama administration for proceeding into the future? >> i just blog a lot about syria. i have not yet heard any discussion on what the local council might be doing to track the actual war crimes of rape women? where does that stand? it is that the results of the underrepresentation of women on the council? >> i will answer the second question first. civil society in general is not restricted to these councils that are reemerging in these areas. people of different professions are coming together and organizing themselves according to profession. for example, when i was an

instant poll -- instanbul, there was a conference, and a lot of activists across the border into turkey and were able to meet with them. one of the groups we wet -- met with was a counsel for the pre judges. all of the judges that had defected and said we will not continue to stand, sort of like decisions already made by the regime of come together, organized themselves into the council agreed judges, and they are specifically, and if your interested, i can connect you specificallyey're documenting rates against women. one of them gave of speech that was very painful for me to hear, explaining how savage the rate that was taking place -- every

rape, every act of rape was savage, but also -- i cannot think of words to describe it. so lawyers as well. there is the council of free lawyer. they're coming together. they are trying to reach out to the council. they're already working with some of the judges. they are working with the council on restoring the core system. this is only the military council. civil society is emerging after half a century. >> the last and perhaps the most important question, what should be obama administration to force syria? >> just today actually the obama administration put forth an

administration. i do not have enough intelligence to judge. it looks like it could be a terrorist organization. the point is obama designated this as a terrorist organization. in the middle of everything, the fighters have improved and still surprising with the regime. designating them as a terrorist organization, i do not know how this will help the rebel cause. this is just wanted example -- one example from today. the obama administration has been, i believe, made a decision to stay away, and unfortunately, his first mission was failed in the beginning of

2012. it was the first year the president started his campaigning year. so, you know, when you look at it, there are reasons, but always the one thing that overlooks this, the way they can intervene and gain and leverage, it is not only vote on the ground, this is an understanding in washington why many people are here. you talk about helping syria. it is basically getting enough help, either of the aid -- enough aid to help those that have been fighting for over a year. there are many commanders that

have been proven to be a very trusted people. i really do not know how much this administration tried to find the good people, because when you talk to the officials there, how do you know who was good and bad? if you start trying to find your man now, you are probably too late already. this is my last point, i personally know a couple of people who have been living in the u.s. for 20-30 years and have been financing and fighting themselves. at least they could be easy to fund, but unfortunately they always complain they could not get allegiance from the administration. >> your answer is the u.s.

government should provide more support to the insurgency? he could definitely. >> in the form of? >> heavy army. >> in terms of recommendations for the administration, they need to understand time is not on their side. it is quite urgent. time is working against them. they either step in and fill and fill in the void. how to do that,, first, they need to empower the civilian council. the u.s. brings humanitarian relief into the country. all of that goes through third party organizations.

first of all, you need to eliminate the middleman and work with the people on the ground, work with the council. this is good for strategic regions -- reasons and humanitarian reasons. it would forge the strategic relationship with the people that are either calling the shots or will be calling the shots in future syria and will increase the influence of the outcome and a key region. second of all, you a power of the emerging democracy, and shape what comes after assad. if you are not meeting the needs, you will create an anti- sentiments that are not favorable to you because you will be seen as the party that has abandoned the syrians. the french in fact -- another option would be to do with the french and british are already doing, working with the troops on the ground. the french prime minister is very active.

they provide direct aid for the councils themselves the british also do the same. the french and the british have coalitions. the european union also did the same. we're way behind. second recommendation is, this has been going on for too long. although sometimes the arguments of we do not know the bad guys and good guys, i do not buy that. i do not buy that. there is a process. the prominent state sometimes are in contact with the military council and it designated a group today as a terrorist organization. so they know who was good and bad. the need to engage the situation where proactively, otherwise this terrorist

organization will continue, and then i do not know what syria will look like a few months from now. unless you engage, even if you do not know the good guys from bad guys, you need to start somewhere. you need to engage the situation. unless you do this, you will have less influence going forward. in gauge the situation, the proactive about what is happening, and during that before it is too late. whether or not the u.s. helps with that will determine what sort of relationship that syria will have in the future. take a one quick point, washington thinks i believe that they have been doing a lot of good work. i believe the perception is there very well liked by the

syrian people. but it is not the case. a first time there is a recent protest they start condemning the u.s., and this friday it will be condemning the u.s. friday. obviously what the administration has been doing is not enough for the hearts and minds of the syrian people. >> we are way over time. i want to thank everyone for coming and that speakers for sharing their personal insight. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> on "newsmakers" the incoming republican conference chairman looks at the so-called fiscal cliff and how republicans and

democrats could come to an agreement. she also talks about republican priorities for the next congress. tomorrow at 10:00 and 6:00 eastern on c-span. >> my inspiration was the idea i wanted to to explain how totalitarianism happens. we do know the story of the cold war. we know the documents we have seen, the archives that described relationships. roosevelt and stalin and truman. we know the main events from our point of view. what i wanted to do was show from a different angle, the ground up, what did it feel like to be one of the people that were subjected to the system, and how did people make choices in the system, and how did they react in the hay? >> one of the things that has happened since 1989 is the region we used to call eastern europe has become very

differentiated. these countries no longer have much in common with each other, except for the common memory of communist occupation. >> more with an applebaum in germany.soviet eastern m -- anne applebaum. that is a big night at 8:00 on c-span "q&a." >> now, latino leaders discuss issues that may impact of latino generation. panelists include former white house advisor to latin -- latin america, executive director of the latino partnership for conservative principles, and arizona state university professor rodolfo espinoza. this event is two hours.

>> good morning. we will go ahead and get started. welcome to the wilson center. this is, as you well know, a place where public policy and a research me to bring together the world of ideas with your world a policy action. very happy to have our director of the latin-american program. and of course, very pleased that this is an event we are co- sponsoring with immigration works that did most of the work for this. the president of emigration works really put the panel together, as well as very proud to co-concert arizona

university. i want to acknowledge a senior scholar at the woodrow wilson center. and many other good friends here. good to see dan and rubber co and many others at the woodrow wilson center. there is no doubt the latino vote was important past election. we did not know how important this would be when we started to put this together. we started this with a question mark. we decided to keep the question mark on there because there are many people that will claim the election outcomes for the results of different factors. i do not think there is any doubt. for anyone who watched endless hours of talks tv and talk radio the days after the elections,

like me, no there was no theme that came out more often than the importance of the latino vote. for many of us that have followed the issue, like many of us, others like me with much more generality, for the past couple decades, we've been saying for a long time, the latino vote will really matter. this will be a good year the both really comes home. i think after a while we stop believing it for the most part. we figure one day will be a this up -- the decisive factor. in this election really was a decisive factor. it was one of the decisive factors. there are a number of things we could ask. first of all, how much of a divisive -- decisive factor was it? how much did it matter in the outcome? why was it such a decisive factor? why now and not other times that may have less than predicted it?

>> how much was immigration policy a factor in this? there is a tendency to complete this with immigration policy. you will hear it is a great error, that these are different things. that has a different scent of constituencies, and the care a lot about immigration policy. luckily, there is some sort of relationship there. to what extent did immigration policy play into this and are the effects going forward? also, the ways the candidates approach issues that may affect the different way group's work. the assumption is it drove the latino vote in a lot of the general media. there may be a more in direct correlation, which is how candidates and parties talk about immigrants overall, and latinos for the most part have closer ties to an immigrant past or present with immigrant families, so how they approached

them may be decisive. let me throw out one more thing, which there is a great commentary, and i wish i could remember who the author was. the day after the election, republican analyst who said the republican party did really well on latino leaders, but not follow worse. if you look at it, the two governors that were republican were two of the three senators who are latino and republicans. they have not done so badly on recruited latino politicians. we cannot have said that 10 years ago. republicans have caught up on this, or at least they are catching up. so is there a difference between latino leaders and supporters? does this look forward to the fact that the republican party is getting ahead of the game and will do better in the future, or are we looking at the fact that they have made those in roads and still unable to attract the latino vote. are democrats in a position to

feel comfortable that what they have done is to secure a strong vote, or should democrats be worried that they made their lunch with the voters that are currently supporting them? these are things you hear different perspectives from the group. now that i have made time for some of you to arrive, let me turn it over to the real host. but we acknowledge those that came in actually. good to see all of you. >> thank you so much. good morning, everyone. thank you for coming and being on time. i am president of emigration works usa. we are national federation of employers, mostly small business owners. we're the advocacy side of this trio, but we are not wearing our advocacy have today. i am very pleased to co-sponsor the event with the woodrow wilson center and arizona state university.

thank you. our allies at asu that are not here. big apple canceled -- to jose cardenas and joe o'brien. -- jose cardino. i think andrew framed the issue very nicely for us. the frame at that really says that all is 71-27. 71% 27%, the presidential vote margin. it is not just incredibly lopsided, the presidential vote margin in the nation's fastest- growing voting bloc. a voting bloc by one estimate, likely to double in size over the next 20 years. you heard me right, double in size by 2030. anybody who did not realize,

anybody who did not realize the latino vote was important between november 6 probably knows by now. many of us who knew it was going to be important did not really know how important and how significant and house spending in effect it would be, and a matter what the numbers were, how it would make an impression on the public and political class this time. certainly when we planned this event, as andrus said, we had no idea how much attention it would get. -- andrew said, with no idea how much attention it with it. obviously our job is a little harder now because you have read those stories. in a way, that gives us room and panelist room to dig a little deeper, to look into the future, to think about significance and talk about

choices that lie ahead that we might not have done it the issue had not gotten so much attention in the past couple of weeks. the morning is divided into two sessions. the first is a conversation about arizona, nearly focused on arizona. what exactly happened in arizona. that means -- needs a little bit of a disclaimer. it was a little bit of an anomaly this time. latinos made up 18% of the people that voted in arizona. one of the states with the biggest latino vote, but obama did not carry the state. in fact, romney won big. the sheriff scourged of immigrants, legal and illegal did win reelection comfortably. not exactly what you would expect. it did not translate into results.

still, we think there is a lot that is interesting to be said about arizona. i will not steal the fire of the people that are going to say it. we are looking at it because of the asu connection. a very interesting microcosm. the first panel is about arizona. we're certainly not saying arizona is typical. the second session will zoom out, pulled back from arizona, and look at the big picture, scope and significance of the latino vote nationally. i will say more about that when the time comes. for now, i want to thank you all for being here, and let's get going. i want to hand the stage over to the politics editor of "the washington times" stephen diner, and also the professor of

politics at asu. thank you. take it away. >> hello. good to have you here. i am a politics editor at "the washington times. " i think you can learn a lot about the national stage from the latino voter, from what went on in arizona, particularly the limits, test the limits of what we can learn about latino voters and their effect on the electoral politics and on policy. i guess i would like to start with a basic question. if someone were to ask me, what the white voter is? i would have no clue how to answer that question.

what is the latino voter in arizona? how much of the electorate, how much of the population, is to listen rate, who is that person. as many of the audience know, the latino population is very perverse. mexican-american, cupid and porter ricans. the latino population is like in neighboring states, primarily of mexican origin. one thing that is unique is a lot of them are recent arrivals, not necessarily for a-porn, but having migrated from california to new mexico because the drop of jobs opportunity if the past decade or so. that is not unlike the white population, too. it is very hard to find needed

arizonans. a lot of people there are transplants from elsewhere. that explained a lot as to why the latino voters are still the sleeping giant in arizona. we saw them surging into mexico and colorado and nevada, but in arizona this year still asleep, and some people ask why, in part, because they're not established the roots. what percentage of the population, give us a sense of the percentage of the population, the growth rate, the expansion. >> in arizona, approximately one-third of the population are hispanic background. but when we take into consideration the qualifications to be able to vote, the voting age population, only 25 percent that are eligible to vote, or in terms of being over 18.

of the population, one-third are disqualified from participating in elections because of their citizenship status. that twiddles the number down dramatically. only 15 percent of the electorate is hispanic. >> what are the projections for the next two decades or so? will they double what the national voting bloc looks like? >> yes. demographic trends suggest the latino populations, that there will be a much larger share of the electorate to come. one thing that is important to keep in mind is not just what the latino population looks like and who they are, but who is the white population is arizona? it is a much older population than populations in other states. we of a lot of snow birds and retirees coming in. one thing to take -- take into

account is the latino population is very young and the white population not replacing itself and dying off. >> the replacement of latinos in to the electorate probably will happen a lot faster in arizona that i have seen in other states. >> let's go into a little bit about what the latino voters in arizona cares about. give me a sense for -- we heard from andrew earlier, this inflation of latino voters and immigration, particularly in my folks people do this, and there is definitely a lot of new ones that needs to be dealt with. what are the top issues, and do we believe what they tell pollsters? definitely questions about pulling overall. to go i would refer any members an audience that want to get

insight into the mind of latino voters to latinodecisions.com. a lot of the numbers are referred to come from there. with respect to the concerns of latino voters, they are not unlike other voters in the country. over the past couple of years one of the most primary concerns has been the states of the economy. of course, their position on how to fix the economy is different. closely related to that this immigration reform. in arizona, they show more concern over immigration reform then say it latinos and other states, in part because of what has been happening in arizona. many people know but arizona is infamous for the passage of sb1070. it was passed in the spring of 2010, but the drumbeat remains

in the news over the past couple years. and it helped with this pre -- recent supreme court ruling and activists on the ground. the use the issue as a talking point. to get them registered and demobilized. to g>> we were talking earlier t the comparisons of polling and looked at a number of states, was it pre-election polling? look at a number of states, and arizona and north carolina both were the ones that have that distinction i guess of emigration versus the economy and what not? . the you draw any distinction from them? >> yes. i think that draws an opportunity. there was a lot of expectations put on latino voters that all my

good as you will get a latino elected to the u.s. senate from arizona and perhaps the pile will be gone. that did not transpire. look at the concern. they are split. say the economy is important here yet that is at the forefront. that will remain up there because of the latino. they are still going out there and using that as a talking point to get them to the polls. >> why did he win? what happened in arizona this year? what was the difference of arizona and other places where we believe latino voters, and particularly issues that they promoted carried elections? >> why did he win? >> it was money. he raised approximately $8 million for his campaign.

to get it blew all records out of the water. to come it was hand over fist his opponent, democratic opponent had about 600-$800,000 on hand. another thing at the signal is the campaign ads. in the past to use talk about how he was tough on immigration and the border. styptic. it became warm, fuzzy biographical. the featured him sitting with his wife, who we had never seen before talking about his years in law enforcement, how he is in

law enforcement cares about children. very much shifted the tone, because i think the recall of russell pearce sent a signal to a lot of republicans in arizona that if you continue to march down the road they can turn out and vote you out of office. do we know anything about the latino voter? >> i am still waiting to get the precinct data, but what we hear, they did break records in terms of getting more latinos registered. there was a 40% increase in the number of latinos registered from 2008-2012. of course that results in more latinos turning out to the polls. one thing that these activists did was educate latinos.

educate them on how to vote and how to vote in arizona, because we have a male in ballot process. we also have a boater id law in place. -- voter id law in place. it may be easier to sign up with the mail-in process. i think that explains why there were some money ballots cast in the general election in 2012. >> talk about the restrictions and what the requirements are. talk about the republicans and whether they are using requirements to tamp down on voter turnout in certain areas. what are the concerns? how is the latino voters in arizona, how are they dealing with that? are there problems we're

hearing? is there going to be a battle over trying to tighten the voter i.d. requirements? >> very quickly, arizona voter i.d. law was voted on by the citizens of arizona back in 2004 with proposition 200. it was challenged in the federal court. it was shot down at the district level and going to be put on appeal, but the marion county indiana case rendered the move in which indiana at the top for voter i.d. lot in arizona, so challenges were dropped. you have to of a picture id. a state driver's license for instance. the important thing is your address you are registered to vote at has to match the address on the identification. this can hit populations that are more more bold than others. that is latino voters. >> is there a sense it was

targeted or is the sense that it will be used to tamp down on latino votes? >> you have challenges being filed by the navajo nation because it also affected them. they settled out of court with the state of arizona and exceptions given to them about the navajo nation that they could use to vote, but the lawsuit filed, and the evidence they were bringing to bear if there was a drop in registration following the prop 200. as far as i see it, the voter i.d. lot in arizona is the law. it will not be challenged. it will pretty much stay in place. >> i said we would get back to the senate race. you had a latino candidates, democratic candidates lose. what happened in the senate race? you obviously had a long-time

incumbent who has a track record, an interesting track record on the immigration issue. the way latinos voted, and the way that immigration played in that race. >> to answer your question, why did he win? it really boils down to name recognition. flake is a well-known name and arizona politics, serving cents the decade. and the family name goes way back. his heritage goes back to the early pioneers. that is another factor to keep in mind. the level of enthusiasm for voting for it jet flight, but also you had a mormon candidates. high levels of enthusiasm among the mormon elector to vote for those candidates. that was a significant hurdle for krona -- carmona and

obama's campaign. going to that briefly. it seems like there is a potential past or victory for republicans that does not necessarily involve tap the base, such as the mormon vote. the question is the republican party in arizona, how do they go forward. do they choose to move towards finding other bases of the support? do they choose to reach out to latino voters? what is the strategy going forward, and how viable is that? >> i do not think they can continue to ignore the latino vote. it will be interesting to watch whether he comes back to his original position being an advocate for immigration reform. when he made the run for the u.s. senate seat, he certainly

shifted back and became a border talk, just like we saw john mccain in 2008. now that he is safely elected for the next six years, perhaps he will be the key republican brings up and pushes for immigration reform and the u.s. senate. one interesting serving note that came from the decision polls on election eve was a question that ask latino voters about the willingness to vote for free publicans. if they took a leadership reform position. 36 percent if -- said if the republican party took a leadership role and insured the passive -- passage of comprehensive immigration reform, there were more likely to vote for the republican party. that tells republicans than rather than pursuing the strategy that perhaps the sheriff and russell pierce chose to do in the past, they may want

to thank the growth trend in arizona. >> this leads as to the issue, and we'll talk about this lately, the south over the past couple generations has steadily moved from a democratic voting bloc to the republican stronghold. we seem somewhat of -- we have seen a latino dominance colorado, new mexico. how does arizona it into that? talk about why arizona is not at the level of those? the battle in colorado springs states. mexico may be solidly democratic. -- nevada and colorado as swing states. new mexico may be more solidly democratic. >> i am always hesitant to look

into a crystal ball making these predictions about politics, because there is some money what if's. assuming nothing changes, arizona will become a swing state, or perhaps a blue states like in new mexico. colorado and nevada are now swing states because of the latino vote. the reason arizona is not there yet is because the white vote it's much more conservative. it is aging and i and all but a very quick rate and been replaced by an number of latino vote. >> so it is purely demographics. it will make the latino vote that much more important going forward? >> absolutely. that does not mean republicans do not stand a chance. latinos are willing to vote for republicans, and willing they g to do so.

>> what are latino voters looking for, specifically on immigration reform in arizona? it is interesting, i went back and was looking over the numbers. the pathway to citizenship was almost nonexistent in my profession, people never talk about half way to citizenship. always amnesty and enforcement 10 years or so, starting -- it is shocking how little people actually did it. it has been a six-fold increase in the passage sixth -- six-fold increase in pathway to citizenship. is there something less than that that latino voters in arizona with settle for? are they looking for a good- based with a except legal status sure way to public to citizenship? what are they looking for? >> pathway to citizenship or

amnesty that we may have called it back in 1986 is one of the key things that latinos are looking for with comprehensive immigration reform. one of the reasons why -- you might ask, latino voters, they argue assistance, so why should they care about pathway to citizens? there are ready citizens. latino voters are very connected to individuals that do not have the citizenship, whether they're here legally or illegally. the survey data found that of latino voters, approximately two-thirds indicated they know someone that is here with an undocumented status. furthermore, there is classifications of the undocumented status. what we hear a lot about is the dream accidents, individuals that came here at a very young age. we know that obama issued an order to change the deportation policy, which made latino

enthusiasticore toward the democratic ticket. two-thirds of latino voters know someone here illegally. more than half know someone who meets the dream act qualification. this is live latino voters are very concerned about immigration reform, it specifically, the pathway to citizenship. not because it affects them directly, but maybe indirectly. >> we're still going to questions from the audience, correct? we will do that in just a minute. i want to get to one other very important question, which is the republican trap, primary purses general election trap that republicans seem to experience. what is the situation with that in arizona? you mentioned the conservative white population. go into what the republicans face as they tried to run in a primary verses the general election. do they have to tow a harder line on immigration and latino

voters overall? >> one thing that is -- i get a lot questions from people all set of arizona. oftentimes it involves the question, what is wrong with arizona? specifically, arizona politics. one thing i always have to tell individuals is we have a unique selection system with clean elections. you can get matching dollar per dollar contributions from the state of arizona should you go up against a well-financed candidates. this has dramatically shifted the type of republicans that are now being elected to the arizona state legislature. now with clean elections, rather than appealing to certain pieces -- certain places, you could go to the state of arizona and you get matching dollar per dollar. more moderate business-oriented republicans have been pushed out over the past 10-15 years because of this clean event and

candidates that come with a specific issue or ideology or agenda. that explains the rise of russell pearce. you also know about his recall. that happened at the primary level, primary elections because of grassroots activists, primarily latino activists in his backyard. of a more moderate republican injury was to knock off russell pearce. those are interesting races, because it shows about the divide in the mormon community. jerry lewis, a mormon. a mormon who was adopting -- salt lake city has a much more moderate position on immigration ban does russell pearce. the mormon church was instrumental in passing what was called the utah compact. basically a decree by the mormon church in certain organizations aimed we will treat all individuals with dignity and

respect and not demonize them essentially. that influence has been coming down to arizona specifically within the mormon community, because the mormon church is very concerned about that are reached to latino voters. . . the role of the mormon church in the church is something that i expect we might see happening more and more. >> i guess you go to the audience. >> excellent.

i do have a couple more that i was like to get to. this gets into the national discussion as well. the big debate is are latino voters and conservative powerhouse or if you look beyond the demographic numbers in terms of socio-economic characteristics and single- parent household, welfare programs low income tax burden, they look a lot like democratic voters. what is the situation in arizona? by the democratic voters? >> at the moment they're hard- core democratic voters. their loyalty to the to the credit party is not raw card.

we saw this in 2010. we have comprehensive immigration reform or climate legislation. democrats chose the choice of climate change legislation to deal with global warming. this upset latino voters across the country, especially in arizona zero. they chose to stay home. it is not that they went to vote for the republican party. they did not see their loyalty to the democratic party that strong in 2010 because of failure for democrats to signal that they found this important. >> talk briefly about the

leadership organizations within arizona. ?is recruiting these voters ta are they leaving latino voters? i think there has been a change in the organization's and the organizational structure at think eight years i would describe it as a lot of activists from the 1960's. a lot of people with the long hair and bandanas. marching their civil rights songs. it did not work. what you have now are latino organizations. their message, they are not harking back to the 1960's. they are talking about 2012.

not only that, it is not organizations like that. you have a lot of the dream at individuals who are not allowed to come vote. i have former students that are impacted by this. but they cannot vote, and they are getting people there that they now can vote for them. that is dramatic change from how we saw in 2008 and 2004. >> i know we have a stop sign. thank you very much. >> thank you.

>> thank you so much. now zero we are going to zoom out. the concept is not that high.

we have republicans personally involved in the campaign. democrats very personally involved in a non-partisan analyst who has been looking at this subject for many years. they are going to look at two really big questions. one is what actually happened this fall. what happens in an election day. we are going to try to give you some detail on that dig a little deeper of the national story of the giant that determined the election. they are going to look from their different points of view at the future. the future really is the game here. to there is no doubt that we are in the very beginning stages of a change that is going to transform american politics. just to unpack that a little

bit. let me go deeper into that number either out earlier. a vote that was going to double in size. that is the number. it is issued on november 14. there are a number of different assumptions that go into a protection like that. number one, the authors assume that this year's sense of power is going to encourage more latinos to register and vote. the rates are still very low. i am sure some will tell us more about that. one of the assumptions is that this will encourage more political activity. they assume the congress will eventually treat a path to

citizenship. the third assumption the 5 million latinos who are already eligible to become citizens but have not done it yet that they will. all of those three assumptions together made up only a small piece of this. the real motor of the doubling is age or youth. to understand this you have to think about to numbers. this year 12.5 million latinos vote. the other no. there are eight teen million latinos who are under 18 years old. anety-three's term of them

u.s.-born citizens. all they have to do is grow up. nothing has to happen. all they have to do is grow up. i guarantee you they will. welcome to the future. a vote that is likely to double by 2013. that opens a whole lot. it is a treasure chest of interesting questions. how are they going to use their new-found power deck? that mean for both parties. what are they going to look like in the future? the generation years seeing now is really a transitional generation. they are on their way to becoming americans. they still may remember what happened now. they will look different.

what is the vote going to mean for the issues that are at the center of american politics? could that change? will that change a? there are lots of interesting questions. we're going to do some future gazing. i want to dig into what we know it can say about as big questions. i'm going to introduce the panelists as i asked them their first question. start with the. the question is what did you do on your auto vacation? you come out of a lot of big jobs in the obama administration. the most recently your one of his principal surrogates. what does it look like from your point of view?

from a personal experience, tell us what happened. the way to understand my role isn't juxtaposition to four years ago. the fascinating thing for me as i emerged from government and went out into campaign lange, was the proliferation of spanish-language media. in 2008 it essential elements national spanish-language media and local media. that is pretty much the some total of the outlets i hit over and over and over again. i ended up doing media in the

national. cnn espanol has a bigger footprint that did 10 years ago. i did radio in iowa and ohio, in north carolina and virginia. obviously in florida and new mexico and arizona. it is that deepening of proliferation of the media outlets that tells you a lots that we can go into about the proliferation of the latino vote. it is an interesting subset. that difference also gets an to this. >> talk a little more about that. the talk about how it is changing the media.

how is it changing the subject? we started much earlier this time. for a word of hope for help, let's remember back to the spring of 2008. there was a candidates that have a latino problem that they were not going to vote. it is famously said by a well expert. the president was barack obama. he had gotten a later start engaging with the latino elected and is primary rival. we started later for a variety of reasons. this time you had a vote

director a year out. you had many more people dedicated to target teen boaters and communicating them. you also have a lot of segmentation. one of the reasons i was able to do interviews and all the places i talked about, i happen to speak a very neutral spanish. it cannot replace it -- place did. that allow them to use in a multitude of places. there was one place where i did one interview all fall which was orlando. it was a large spanish-language media appeared it is a pr and electric. you do not see 1 -- need someone with my stilskill sets begin

to pour ricans. you need porter ricans speaking . porter ricans -- puert you were speaking through folks from the same group. >> different issues as well? >> the issues this time and you saw this far out of the exit polls. the issues were very much the issue the national issues. they cared about more in the national exit polls than did the rest of the electorate. the budget deficit and then for policy. the four top issues were the same in a slightly different order than they were for the rest of the electorate.

budget deficit and health care were in opposite places. this time it was a little more those domestic issues than four years ago. the media was focus. it is for policy driven. this time even that community was not. i was talking about benghazi. >> you do not use the word immigration. >> it came up a little bit. it came up in the following way. people wanted to know that the president cared about the issue. they wanted to understand not -- why it had not been achieved in his first term.

this served almost the same function i view, that of a threshold issue. if they are ok on immigration, they will listen to the rest of it. if you're not, they will not listen to the rest of it. but not think it is fully the problem. it served a little bit in this anecdotal evidence derived from interviews. it was an issue. it was almost a euro can this issue. >> alphonso. what did you do on your thoughts and vacation? i know you organize an independent television ad campaign in nevada. explain to us what that means. how does that word? how does it work? what did the election but like stick to your personal

experience and then we will broaden it out. >> the great thing is that it is independent. i'm not here to defend the romney campaign. we realized we needed to do something different. the latino vote would be decisive. we said let's go to a state where we can make a difference and show that we recognize that the economy is the number-one issue and unemployment. we cannot just talk about their advertisements. we have to go to the community. this is something the obama campaign did very well. that is what we did in nevada with very limited funding. there is a grass-roots effort.

we knew we had limited funding. we cannot engage every single latino voter. it went from 15% to 18%. we worked with evangelical churches recognizing that is a set of the electric where it is very strong. we did town halls. of over 200 people. concerns is doing a town hall with over 200 people. no one heard about this. it was not happening. it does is happening in nevada. the issue said we believe that with latinos we need a combined message. we cannot win employment and the economy. why the policies of the

president are not good for the latino community. we understood immigration is that immigration is a very important issue and we needed to neutralize it. that means obama's fell promise on immigration. the president was attacking a crummy for saying the arizona law was a model for the nation. he did not exactly say that. regardless, the romney campaign did not explain the position very well. the president has implemented and enforced a policy that is much more punitive. deporting more than many other presidents in history.

we ran ads in spanish language about this. we also talked about social issues. basically, the president's position on lives and marriages. there is a big chunk. that is very socially conservative. it will vote exclusively for those issues. we had a very strong get out the vote effort. it was an overall effort. it is the only state where romney did better than mccain this time around, nobodever thot that. is it a coincidence that perhaps. i think it shows that if you invest in an effort to end you have the message you can win.

we were outspent. he had made a very unfortunate statements during the campaign about this. i think he was wounded from the beginning. i would disagree in the sense that immigration was key. >> the symmetry here is fascinating. democrats do not have to talk about it. it is a threshold issue. we have to talk about it all the time. let me press you a little bit on the social issues. the polling is very different on that. on the social issues the polling issue is starting to come up pretty mixed. >> we understood as we went in. this is very important latinos are not a monolithic community. it is an american phenomenon. you are from cuba are guatemala

or mexico. you're not latino. you come here and all of this a sudden you are latino. what does that mean that we're seeing a change. at the about 47 of latina's today are foreign-born generally. most are the children of immigrants. with the electorate we are seeing that. we're still having multi generational latinos from the southwest. we are starting to see those are being more conservative appeared on abortion believe abortion should be legal. marriage is shifting. it has shifted in the past five years. there is still a good chunk of that in a -- electric.

the question is with social issues. it is not if you're going to scare voters away. we believe those that vote is close of the for those issues are religious people that are going to vote for the candidates. nobody is not going to go against the candidates because of their position of latin marriage. >> it is a place where we are not looking to the future. we're counting on the older ones. >> you will be surprised with the children of foreign-born latinos. they are still much more conservative than the rest of the population. >> we will come back to this. you are the analyst. i am sure you are partisan somewhere deep down.

a professor in two different schoolsso, tell us, do us a little john king thing for us here. >> pretend we don't have that map with the counties, but -- >> i've got spreadsheets. >> you know. well, good. okay, but everybody, you know, everybody nationally has been talking about this in a very undifferentiated way. to the degree they're talking at all they're talking about states, and they're giving us this image of big numbers. i think it's not quite like that, right? i think it's relative, although there's a very significant phenomenon, we're still talking about small numbers and relatively contained. so i mean, just setting it up for folks, i mean we know that in some of the swing states, latino vote didn't matter, didn't make the margin at all. ohio, pennsylvania, iowa, and new hampshire, latinos, you know had little if anything to do with it. in four swing states, nevada, new mexico, colorado, and florida, you could have made the difference.

so, what was involved in that? do the don king suro. [laughs] what can you tell us? >> all right. well, i think you know that people have already spoken here about the importance of disaggregating this vote and you can cut it a lot of different ways. one of -- in trying to understand what happened in november, one of the -- a still nascent thought that's developing in my mind is trying to understand how latino voters in different parts of the country function as part of the larger coalition that elected obama. the focus has been traditionally very much and throughout this conversation as if these were actors operating in a void, but it's all about their characteristics, their identity, their views, when in fact we know that politics

especially in this go round, the nature of coalition building in the end turned out to be one of the really critical factors, maybe the historical -- the lasting historical change in electoral 8 politics for these last two cycles is the effect of this coalition building. it really depends on whether it was a one off or not. that's another question. so if you think about latinos that way, as an element of the obama coalition more so than just this isolated, sleeping giant, really unfortunate metaphor, which i've been dealing with since i first started writing about this too many years ago. one of the patterns that develops is the extent to which you see, with preliminary data still, that latino voters in

different parts of the country really did respond to circumstances. and that in the key states where they made a difference, the swing states that didn't matter in the end, colorado, nevada, florida in particular, new mexico is kind of an outlier because of its own peculiar politics and demographics, but in those states, you know, there's some very interesting places to look and see what you've got. so -- and to contrast places like texas, where a lot of the future is going to play out. >> okay, so take us into those places. >> okay, so if you look at -- take a place like clark county, nevada. >> that's suburbs of -- >> it's las vegas. it's a suburb of los angeles in

more ways than one. >> that's true. >> spoken like a true angelino, oh yes, okay. but now that i mean it's, politically it is, and we see this in this election. >> what do you mean? >> internal -- the migration from within the united states to las vegas over the last 10 years has been driven overwhelmingly by californians, and mostly to clark county. and as a result you now have this state where one urban area has got the biggest concentration of votes and the people in that urban area are distinctly different than the rest of the state. >> okay. >> i mean and latinos included, which you know to a certain extent have acculturated into a -- and now clark county now has its own political life. the democratic party has its own political life there despite alfonso's good efforts, the republican party there developed a tea party alternative and went way off the charts. and so it's an example of there.

denver as well, different kind of democratic coalition, somewhat different roots, different flavor, different opposition, but in denver county, and arapahoe county, which is the southern eastern suburbs of denver, you saw latinos really functioning as part of a working coalition. >> so, what does that mean in terms of numbers? i mean help us understand that. >> well, so in denver latinos make up 30% of the population -- >> 30? >> 30, 30% of -- this is the -- yes, 30% of the eligibles in denver are latinos, in denver county. obama carried it by 74%. clark county, latinos make up 20 30 percent of the electorate.

obama carried it by 56 and change. >> so, what you're saying, it's latinos as part of a broader democratic community? >> as part of a broader -- not as singularly making a decision on their own, but operating within a coalition. and i think that has real implications, both from the way you read these numbers. more importantly in the second part of the conversation, how you imagine them as political actors going forward, but i would contrast this for example to bexar county, texas, san antonio herald it home of the castro brothers, the future of the democratic party -- >> the good castro brothers. [laughter] >> right, our castro brothers. >> mayor of san antonio, and what's the other one? >> [unintelligible] >> fifty% of the eligibles are latino. right? >> 50%. >> 50% and obama carried it by 51. 6% of the vote.

so, this takes -- these numbers take some digging, but it's clear that there you had in bexar county where this new -- the new coalition is being born, this place where, you know, texas is going to turn purple and bexar county is the new boston. you've got to ask yourself about that latino vote. it's a very middle class, very middle-of-the-road mexican american vote, and in that context where there's a weaker democratic coalition and a much 31 larger messaging from the republican party, you've got what would appear to be a much more even split. we would have to do precinct level analysis there to really try and figure that out. >> but there -- i mean actually as a sort of -- you know if you were an uninitiated listener, i mean what would be stunning here is that there are these places in america where it's 20%, 30%, 50% latino vote, right? i mean that's the first -- >> but that doesn't predict what

the outcome is going to be. >> yes, yes. >> that's what i'm saying. >> yes. >> you can look at the hispanic share. >> it doesn't tell you. >> and that doesn't tell you how it's going to turn out. >> by what was the split in san antonio? >> pardon me. >> what was the -- just among latinos,percentage -- >> we don't know. >> we don't know yet? >> no, we don't know yet. >> oh, wow. >> all we have is the overall outcome, yes. >> that's what we need to look for. >> right. >> right. >> but miami-dade is another -- you know, florida is another place where it's -- miami-dade is now the home of a really interesting, complicated, mixed up political coalition. where you have cubans and non- cuban hispanics finding common cause with african americans, haitians, a big lgbt community, big arts community, a lot of internal migrants from new york, where the same way clark county has been -- you've got a pot, a core of white democratic activists that have brought california politics in nevada.

ofmiami, you've got a core new york, northeastern democratic activists who brought those politics to south florida. and within that you're now starting to see very effective latino players, a democratic congressman who won a race against a highly flawed republican candidate, but still won, who formed a coalition that, you know, went from miami beach through working class neighborhoods, all the way down to the keys with very distinct different working class whites, gays, you know, snowbirders, and then a big chunk of cuban and non-cuban latinos. so, in the second part of it, you start thinking about identity politics in a different way. if you are thinking of a group that has flexed its muscles by virtue of being part of a

coalition, as opposed to having flexed its muscles as being a plaintiff, as having been alone, as being outsiders saying, "these are my claims and i am pressing these claims alone," as opposed to saying, "i have 33 achieved a level of success by being part of a much larger political establishment." >> okay. okay, interesting. so dan, you're nodding away. come in. >> a couple of things i agree with -- i think you need to see this and understand the latino vote as part of -- and certainly chicago viewed latinos and this president from, you know, multiple years back, saw them as part of a coalition and of a governing of both a political coalition, but of also a governing coalition. and there is historical evidence obviously for roberto was just talking about in terms of who engages what community, and their voting behavior later. cubans are an interesting example, right? there's two big pockets of

cuban americans in the united states, one in south florida, which until this election was a predominantly republican voting phenomena, and those in union city, new jersey who have, you know, electorally expressed themselves via the democratic party. and a lot of that goes to who engaged them when they showed up, and cultivated their political activity, and included them in the political activity that was going on at that time in those communities. so i think there is a lot to be said for viewing the influence of latinos in this cycle, and in particularly going forward as part of a broader coalition, and one that, you know, i -- and i've heard them time and time again. everybody likes -- republicans love to go back to the reagan quote. the national exit poll this year shouldn't give you a lot of comfort. >> right. >> it's, you know, two-thirds support for abortion rights, 60% support for the affordable care act, almost 59% support for same sex marriage, of this among hispanics in the national exit poll. that doesn't sound particularly

socially conservative to me, no. and also the question i think at some level becomes, and this is more for the demographers and the people who i'm not a quant, which is a dangerous thing to say in this day and age, you know, are hispanic millennials, more like millennials? >> right. >> or are hispanic millennials like traditional hispanics, if such a thing exists? >> yes, so save that thought. save that thought. so, let's come back to you, let's dig a little deeper, and i'm trying to keep putting you on the spot on this -- >> no, no, no. i'm sure -- >> and roberto, i'm interested in your take too. you know, can republicans appeal to the hispanics, even if we can take the immigration thing off the table, can we appeal? >> let' me quickly respond to that. look, i think on social issues and latinos, we have to do a

lot of research, because there's contradictory data. we have the exit polling. we have recent polling from illinois showing the latinos there are very -- the majority are for marriage and believe abortion should be illegal. i mean i think the pew hispanic center numbers on abortion that contradict that exit polling. i never said that we were going to win the latino vote exclusively with social issues. that had to be part of the mix. my point is that we're -- and going to roberto's point, absolutely, i think that the obama campaign did a marvelous, superb job in building coalitions, and really spending money, outspending us on latino grassroots outreach incredibly. in some places there was absolutely no outreach from -- grassroots outreach from the republican side, but it seems to me that at the end, it's not

only about coalitions or about being in the community. yes, we have to be there early. we have to spend money in grassroots efforts. that is key to compete, but at the end with latinos, ideas matter, and i go back to immigration. republicans bought this idea fed to them by republican strategists within the beltway, some people that you know about, that you've heard about, mr. rove and i keep saying this because everybody says, "i wish you'd go back to karl rove's concept of the big tent." now, for karl rove, the big tent is big, but it's empty -- [laughter] because it's just to talk about the economy, talk about the economy, talk about the economy, don't talk about immigration. we went into nevada. people said, "don't talk about social issues. don't talk about immigration,"

and i said, "i'm going to talk about social issues, and i'm going to talk about immigration." we need -- the problem was that they thought that -- the strategists thought the republican candidates to win the primary, you have to move to the extreme right on immigration. you have to sound like a restrictionist and that is wrong. every study shows the american people, republicans and democrats, support immigration reform. he could have had a much more constructive message from the beginning of the primary, and i think he would have been much more competitive in the general election. now, i'm not saying that if you just have a good position on immigration that you're going to win enough support form latino voters, but at least -- >> they hear you. >> they're not going to tune you out, because we were tuned out completely. they were not listening to us, and again i go back to spanish- language media, which i did a lot, you know, i was part of the univision coverage of election night. and it sounded like we're covering the presidential election and immigration

because of the emphasis on immigration. it was all about immigration. so it can go a very long way. ideas, ideas matter, and to finish, i think that also the last pew hispanic center polls on party affiliation is very revealing. i think it shows that up to 51% of latinos today, in terms of party affiliation, identify as independent. you know, i would not reach the conclusion that republicans have lost the latino vote forever and democrats, you know, are really winning over the latino vote. latinos at the end didn't vote for obama because they were enamored with barack obama. i know that's what the campaign thinks, but that's not what happened. we had a terrible candidate. we ran a lousy campaign, and it had terrible positions on immigration. >> okay, so i want to go down the row, starting with roberto. [applause] starting with roberto, assuming republicans could wipe the slate clean on immigration, you know, next week, which we all know is not going to happen, it's going to be a long, hard road to get to solve it, how long is the memory of this going to last?

i mean when african americans vote today, you know, so lopsidedly democratic, they're not remembering the 1960s and '70s, but at some level they're remembering the 1960s and '70s. i'd like to hear all of you talk about what's the half life. you know, even if we could get it right now, how do you see that playing out? >> well, you know, if you -- judging from -- we don't have a lot of past performances to base this on except for one very dramatic one, which is california, where the republican party succeeded in the mid 1990s as painting itself as the party taking a hard line on immigration, and one that was exuberant about rhetoric that was -- and images that were quite graphically demonizing -- >> they keep coming. >> right, they keep coming.

that was pete wilson's ad in the 1994, his successful reelection. much harsher rhetoric than anything we've seen, much more memorable, still on youtube and playable, but had a really lasting impact. one of the dynamics of the immigration issue that i think seems quite clear is that it works very well, always has, as a negative mobilization issue. you can mobilize people to anger over immigration on both sides of the issue. it's worked both ways. it's actually worked much -- it has a much longer and effective history of animating political behavior towards restriction than it does towards generous policies.

but you could also as the republicans have shown in the last 10, 15 years quite consistently, you can really get -- you can create grudges among people by demonizing them through immigration. so how long does it last? how deeply was -- is the wound here? you know, it's really hard to say. you look at the presidential level of a particular, the republican share has bounced around, you know, to some extent. i mean it -- george h. w. bush got up to the mid 30s. ronald reagan brought it up to the mid 30s. bob dole in the midst of the anti-immigrant sentiment of the 1990s took it back below 30. george w. bush got it back up to the magic 40% that karl rove thought was the jumping off

point for neutralizing all of these questions. so, you know, we're talking about a fairly small margin of voters here. so, if you -- you know, a 10% shift in the latino votes moving 1 million to 1.3 million, you know, the actual -- what the turnout is, we don't really know yet. it's going to take a while. the exit poll numbers are losing credibility as time goes on, but that's -- i don't want to get too -- >> yes. >> you know, geeky with you [laughter] a shift to a million voters, million and a half voters, and romney would have been in the mid 30s in terms of his share, and everybody would have said, "that was a pretty good night for a republican." now, what would have happened in terms of actual states, i knew you were going to ask that -- [laughter] >> and then i want to go down the row, getting everyone.

>> it's interesting, because it doesn't -- it would have -- i'll leave it to the pundits to determine whether, you 38 know, what, you know -- if the exit polls were correct, which is an f, and you shifted 10%, took 10% of the latino vote out of obama's column and put it on romney's column, romney would have squeaked florida, would have clearly carried florida, would not necessarily have carried nevada or colorado, but they would have been close. nevada would have been very -- i mean whisper, whisper close, and colorado would have been closer. it would have been close, it wasn't even close. so, it's not -- that would not have been a panacea. you know, a lot of this latino vote is just, is padding states like new york and california. you know, obama had this much touted margin of 4,500 -- 4. 5 million votes among latinos, right, 3. 5 million latino votes, but 40%

of that margin, it sits in new york, california, and illinois. just where he got ridiculous amounts of votes, but it doesn't -- you know, i mean you could -- >> it doesn't matter. >> you could spend a lot of time and money racking up those votes, and it's bragging rights for one night but we did actually, but we did, right, and then the interesting thing is those are places where, you know, again, it's one of these counter-factual -- what would a targeted campaign to turn out latinos look like and what would the effect be if, you know, pete wilson hadn't done us the favor in california a couple of decades ago? >> let me -- one other thought that i forgot that's important to this -- that will move this conversation forward, briefly. the other part of this -- the narrative of immigration in this election, i think, is really one of the extraordinary

achievements of the obama campaign, was to deflect all blame for anything that has happened on immigration and make this an issue in which the republicans were consistently the bad guys. >> well, that's a poor candidate. yes, yes. >> this really -- but forget romney. leave romney out. romney just, you know, they put a giant pile of doo doo there for him and he stepped into it, but they put the doo doo there in a remarkable way. [laughter] >> what an image. okay. >> one key statistic in all of this, since the day barack obama was inaugurated, one out of every 10 mexicans living in the united states has been deported. >> yes. >> one out of 10. nobody mentioned that. >> yes. yes, except alfonso at the town hall. [laughs] >> well, you didn't get very far in this. [laughter] [talking simultaneously] >> everyone kept saying you're -- under me you're going to self-deport. well, the answer was under you they're being deported. >> just quickly --

>> okay, but let's go down -- >> it's also the republican congress who raised the funds to do that. it has a lot to do with it. >> but then talk about -- >> but rather than get into an immigration debate -- >> talk about this long-term thing. >> yes. >> how -- i mean, when your view, how long is this -- are we scarred forever? you know, can we forget this? can we get over this? >> this goes to roberto's point. republicans have a huge brand problem right now among latinos, and it's sb-1070. it's, you know, sensenbrenner, right? i mean, it's -- and a lot of it stems -- >> yes. >> from the immigration issue and how it's been handled by the two parties. i think that -- but -- and this is somewhat dangerous on what the word "immigrationworks" behind me to say. i mean, i think immigration -- i think there's an immigration- related lesson -- there's a danger of over-learning immigration-related lesson for both parties. i think republicans are fooling themselves if they think they fully solve their latino problem by now coming to the table on comprehensive immigration reform, and i think democrats

are fooling ourselves if we think we've locked this up. you know, the president gets this done and we've locked this up for time immemorial. the result -- what we saw in '12 obviously had an immigration overlay, had a republican branding -- but it also was the result of a very deliberate incorporation of latinos into the governing coalition into -- and into the kind of daily life of the obama administration, right? and it's little things. it's inviting the anchors we see on telemundo to the pre-state of the union lunch that before it was just the mainstream media that got invited. it was -- it's the, you know, speaking spanish from the white house podium for the first time ever during a white house -- regularly scheduled white house press brief. and a lot of this grew, you know, into respect, right? >> respect, respect? >> issues matter tremendously. >> respect.

>> respect is a part -- has to go with the issues, and i think it's that combination and, again, 60% support for the affordable care act. a middle-class mentality within latinos who appreciate what the president has done and that the president's priority was on the middle class and his opponent's was elsewhere. >> but i like -- >> and so those -- the kind of -- that combination, i think, is what worked and what will continue to work, but democrats make a big mistake if we go, you know, "we've locked this up. this is ours, you know, all we have to do to really nail it down is comprehensive immigration." >> and that wouldn't be good for latinos either. >> right. >> i mean, the last thing latinos want to be is african americans. >> right, is to be segmented. >> taken for granted. >> right, right, right. >> taken for granted by one and ignored by the other, right? that's the last thing. >> i don't think you can get away with that -- >> well -- >> tamar. >> because of the size. >> well, because of the precedent thing. >> right. [laughter] >> well, let's -- let me say these two things very quickly.

>> the ignoring part of it? i don't think that works anymore. >> going back -- >> i think african americans kind of scored some points there with the -- >> yes, with the -- >> going back quickly to the deportation issue, when we ran that ad in nevada, it was just nevada. i had never seen the obama campaign reacting so quickly. i mean, they issued several statements. that ad, which again was just run in clark county, nevada, got coverage from cnn, from all the major media outlets. at that time i said we're on to something. hopefully the republican party, the conservative super pacs will get it. >> but what's your -- >> it didn't happen. >> what's your prediction of, you know, how can we get over this? like -- >> well, absolutely. the great thing about latinos is they're very independent minded. i don't know if you can really poll this, but they are, and this is a community in flux. and that's what we have to understand, that again, i think that if we engage them they'll respond favorably to the conservative message. barack obama wasn't the first

one. again, this idea that he was the first one to invite jorge ramos and maria elena salinas and jose diaz balart to the white house, you know, i was in the bush administration. i remember president bush being extremely good with spanish- language media. president bush and the campaign in 2000, 2004 was extraordinary in terms of the latino media. can latinos forget? absolutely. i mean, you mentioned the pete wilson debacle in california. well, only a few years later george w. bush was winning with 40 to 44% of the latino vote, 2004, only eight years ago. >> not in california. >> not in california. >> not in california. that's right. not california. >> california is deep blue. >> not california. no, no. not california, not in new york. that's right, but we were extremely competitive. i don't think latinos have forgotten about that.

i think latinos understand that ronald reagan was the last one to pass immigration reform. they understand that george w. bush worked very hard for immigration reform and i think what we allow ourselves is for a small group within the gop to hijack this issue and become the vocal voice on immigration. the problem with republicans is the majority remained silent, remained silent. can we take over? absolutely, but i don't think latinos are going to keep this in their mind. if they have a republican candidate who's good on immigration, who can make a populous case for why limited government and a free economy is better for latinos, they will support the republican candidate, no problem. >> good. dan, so now -- and take us back also -- >> yes. >> say what you're going to say, but then take us back to your millennial voter question, because i think that's really interesting. i'd like you all to think about that.

what is the millennial latino voter going to look like? >> and i'll grant you that the bush family has got it right in terms of how to message the latinos, right? you can go to school on the ad jeb bush -- [unintelligible] that jeb bush ran in his re- election campaign. >> it wasn't only the bush family. >> 45 you can go -- george w. bush ran an ad that is inconceivable of a republican candidate running today where the only flag that the candidate waved during the ad was the mexican flag. >> oh my gosh. >> in his hand. i mean, again, if you just watch the image it looked like he was running for president of mexico, not president of the united states. >> he's a texan. >> right. no, no. it's a different. it's a different sensibility. >> it's a nixon-to-china thing. >> right. it's a different sensibility and -- >> confidence about that. >> right. again, i think we as democrats need to be very careful to think this is over with latinos. it's not. i think the playing surface is a beneficial one to the democrats right now and i think there's plenty of work. >> sorry. >> but the work needs to

continue to solidify that. they -- this is an electorate that is too diverse. there's generational change happening in it. you need to stay engaged. you need to -- you know, those 800,000 to a million hispanics who are aging into the electorate need to be reached out to, need to be cultivated, need to be worked, you know, quite frankly, by both parties. i'm hoping the republicans won't. [laughter] as a partisan. and then there is this question and i don't know -- i don't think the research has been done yet and roberto can correct me if i'm wrong here, in terms of this kind of millennial question. >> yes. >> the latino electorate is young and getting younger, and the question is how -- are they going to behave like millennials? quite frankly, are millennials going to behave like millennials as time goes forward? >> when they're not millennials. >> when they're no longer millennials, right. >> but when they're somebody else being millennials. >> [laughs] right, exactly. >> millennials are 30 years old. >> right. yes. >> yes. right. >> so you can, again, you can over-learn the lessons in any given moment politically quite easily, but again, the latino millennials, or these latinos

who are coming of age, aging into the electorate, in places like texas is one experience and they're liking to have one set of kind of values and voting behavior and when they're aging into the electorate in south florida it's a different thing. again, we got to be very careful to over-think this and over-simplify this as we do the analysis. >> actually, you know, it's not so hard. >> but we can talk about things like spanish language media and issues, can't we? i mean, isn't it -- >> well, there's -- let's just talk about this part of it first. there's -- it's not -- you don't need to over-think it. aere's actually -- there is very good political analyst who's not much in favor in many circles these past few weeks for his predictive skills. [laughter] and for his actual arithmetic skills on camera. >> right. >> karl rove worked these numbers in 1992, '93.

i mean, i remember hearing him talk about this stuff in texas in the 1980s. i mean, the people we're talking about who were going to make all those predictions, were already born then. >> right. >> right? so the demographics haven't changed. he laid -- i mean, his numerology argued that republicans, to be competitive in the demography of this decade, had consistently reached between 40, 45, sometimes high 40s of latino vote nationally. doesn't have to win it. >> right. >> and you're not talking about a huge dramatic shift that where latino voters are, and this is banking on a series of assumptions, right? and there are a number of assumptions that you -- that then peel away from those

numbers. i mean, one of them is what was not anticipated, and it's a really important factor in all this is the recession and its effect on population trends. so people have stopped moving, right? we have very low rates of internal migration, which was one of the factors that was transforming the politics of places like virginia, north carolina, metropolitan texas. >> right. >> houston, dallas had been converted politically by people coming from elsewhere. the intermountain west. so if you halt that, you know, and when you're thinking about latinos as part of a coalition, the key element of that coalition was this mixture of newcomers. latino newcomers and newcomers from other places, particularly if you think to the future of some place like north carolina or georgia, even at congressional district level.

so if you halt that, that's one thing. the other question is what do you -- >> or halt it permanently. >> well, no, but for how long? >> slow now. >> we're into a five-year lag, so when does it pick up? how long does it take to get back to the levels of migration that created this political environment, which was created 10 to 15 years ago. and, you know, by the time this latino electorate gets to voting age, you know, will they start voting early? always a question. >> right. >> not, you know, it varies from one cycle to another. very hard to tell. >> right. >> very difficult to understand what mobilizes people when they're young. >> well, when will they be educated enough? because that will change their voting patterns, right? like, how -- >> well, that's -- you know, then as much as who are they. >> yes. >> right.

what are their values? where do they fit? do they vote as latinos? do they vote as people who didn't go to college, who had a very hard time going to college? >> right. >> do they vote economic interests? and we have a good idea of what those economic interests are likely to be, where the country is now. >> low income issues. low income issues. >> low income working class, many of them. >> right. yes. >> their parents don't have the money to easily send them to college. the public education system is doing terribly with them. college-going rates are up, but they're not going to four-year degrees. >> yes. >> so, there are a lot of reasons to assume that what -- the economic shape of this, and if you take the idea that they're coming -- they're going to come into politics as coalition players. then is -- you change the nature of identity politics then somewhat. you know, you're looking at a different kind of coalition that's not based on hispanicity necessarily. alfonso. >> i think we're agreeing. like, the point here is it behooves -- building off the very last thing you said -- it

behooves whomever wants them to be a part of, you know, their electoral -- to keep them engaged in the coalition, right, and not to think this one issue has kind of permanently made them a member of the coalition. >> right. absolutely. >> and this is the key for republicans, and i agree that we can't over-think it. i mean, what are the projections? what are going to be their interests? it's hard to say right now, but one thing is clear. republicans cannot engage latinos two months before a general election. i was in tampa and i was talking to one of the co-chairs of the romney hispanic effort, and i was complaining that i hadn't seen anything going on in battleground states where latino vote is decisive, and he looked in my eyes and said, "alfonso, now is when the campaign starts."

and i'm like "oh my god." [laughter] we're going to lose big. [laughter] and we did. but it can't be either [laughter] we're going to lose big. [laughter] and we did. but it can't be either six months before the election. it has to be a continuous -- >> right. >> effort to engage latinos continuously. and, again, as i said, to explain to them why policies based on limited government and free economy are good policies for latino businesses. latinos are opening businesses three times as fast as the national average. i don't think they have still understood the impact that, say, obamacare is going to have in their businesses, but they soon will, and -- but if we don't engage them, if we don't explain that to them, they're not going to understand. so this is key. and then finally, if you're -- obviously i go back to the issue of immigration. i mean, you need to have -- those who've remained silent for so long at this point have to raise their voices. the great thing is that now there's an avalanche of republicans coming forward and saying i'm for immigration reform, from rick santorum, the

latest. >> stop. >> to sean hannity who says he's evolved and now he's for immigration reform. well, you're going to see a lot of eople who remain quiet on the issue coming forward and saying you know what, i'm actually going to tackle this issue. i'm conservative and i believe in immigration. and finally, conversations are starting in the house and the senate, and so i am hopeful. i am hopeful. but again, if we have a good position on immigration, if we don't engage the latino vote directly, understanding its diversity -- for so long hispanic outrage from the republican side has been talking to hispanic business elites. i remember one event that a hispanic organization did and -- i mean, i love this organization. they do great work. but they did it at the doral resort in miami. >> we were both there. >> and i just didn't really get it. i think there were really more latino voters in the kitchen than out -- >> out. >> and i mean, but it says something. >> yes, out.

>> it says something about where are we engaging them. you know, i think we have to go to the communities. the basic community organizations that are conservative are the evangelical churches. let's use them. let's go to the grassroots, but that hasn't happened. >> right. okay. so let's open it to audience questions. somebody's got a microphone. let's start on the ledge there. anybody sitting on the ledge deserves to get the first question. [laughter] >> hopefully only literally, not figuratively, right? [laughter] >> please identify yourself. >> sure. thanks very much. cynthia arnson from the latin american program here. alfonso, you mentioned, you know, the record rate of deportations under barack obama. i'm wondering if you can sort of all of you look ahead into your crystal ball, we all know that if there is immigration reform it's going to involve, you know, a compromise between things that, you know, democrats want and that republicans want. what do you think are the elements of a potential immigration reform that will most turn off latino voters in terms of trading off, you know, some form of, you know,

legalization of people already in the country in exchange for, you know, tougher enforcement, a bigger wall, all that sort of -- where do you see the politics of this kind of driving wedges into the community? >> right. >> well, frankly i think that if we do legalization, if we do path to citizenship, the other stuff will not be that significant in the latino community. >> right. >> but. >> i agree. if it's legalization that provides them at least some form of legal residency, i don't think it will be an issue. tougher enforcement is not going to be an issue to latinos. question here is the path to citizenship. i can already see the democrats saying "well, the republicans are against a path to citizenship." i think republicans there would have to say we're against a special path to citizenship. ideally i would like to see a path to citizenship, especially for the young dreamers, but i think i agree with tamar. legalization has to be part of this. 54 >> dan. >> i'm curious as to what tamar

meant by legalization, but -- >> i meant that that piece is much more important than the rest. >> yes. yes. >> that's the turkey in the middle of the table, but they know exactly what the vegetables are. >> any path to citizenship is -- >> not that important. >> i think path to citizenship is the turkey on the table -- in the middle of the table. >> yes, well. >> i think, again, -- >> probably the wrong metaphor. >> right, yes, but if there's a path to citizenship with a reasonable amount of time, i'm not quite sure what reasonable is right now, then i think the rest of it falls into place quite simply from a kind of latino activism perspective. the -- i think, quite frankly, that's going to be as, i think, you've just heard in these two answers where there's still a lot of bridging to be done in washington and, i think, within the republican party in terms of how far they're willing to go on the question of path to citizenship, not just second class status here in the united states. i think will be the real rub in the debate. >> yes, i have to respectfully disagree. >> why we invite you.

[laughter] [talking simultaneously] >> that's not the only reason. if you think back over the last 10 years or so of failure in immigration policymaking -- actually, more than 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, depends on how long -- far back you want to go -- it starts making me feel old. one of the developments, particularly since the mid 2000s has been the emergence of a fairly vigorous immigrant's rights movement in this country and a litigation power and a protest power that didn't exist before. you all talk -- all of you have talked here as if you missed the key to all immigration legislation in the past -- maybe you'll be different this time -- has been in the details. so, a legalization, just means nothing. there are two things that i think we know from past experience about the nature of

these proposals. one is that a legalization proposal is going to be a giant game of chutes and ladders, right? with all kinds of qualifications, a process for getting into it. there are going to be right to the last minute bargaining over "let's set the start date here or here," and you're tossing a million people one way or the other depending on a deal that's made, you know, in one of those gilded rooms in the capitol building when it goes to conference, right? so we know that. all that stuff will be litigated. it will be a process -- the process of legalization itself given the current framework is designed to be long. so it is going to be litigated and is going to be a process

people are going to be going through for a long time. the other thing we -- and that will be full of potholes, full of questions about implementation ability, rights to counsel. i mean, we're talking about taking a framework now legally that is intensely hostile to the legal rights of the foreign- born. a democratic artifact by the way -- >> right, right. >> but let me continue -- >> no, but we have five minutes and lots of other questions. >> all right, and one last point, the other piece of the architecture of immigration policy that we -- that i think that we can be pretty confident about is that as you build an umbrella under which certain people are sheltered, life outside that umbrella gets harsher. >> no question. >> right? no question. that means whoever doesn't get in is going to face a much more wicked situation in terms of much higher rates of

deportation, fewer rights. >> presumably they're going to blame both parties, right? presumably if they -- you know, in the ideal world where we make a deal -- >> i'm just saying people are portraying this as, oh, you know, by april we'll pass this law and then latinos will forget about it. it will be a living, breathing controversy in latino communities for the next decade. >> okay, next question, and we have lots of questions so please make your questions brief and maybe we'll accumulate a few now. man with the microphone. male speaker, i have a question about immigration, it seems, has been discussed more as a unilateral issue here. where does mexico have a role here? this is in many ways a foreign policy question. the obama administration has little or no real relationship with mexico, at least even the new president, and i do wonder whether this will ultimately become a matter of solving this as two nations can rather than just one. >> okay, next question.

the man right there in the blue shirt. >> i'm miguel diaz [spelled phonetically], i'm a foreign service spouse. great panel, my kudos to the wilson center for hosting it. i have two questions if i may -- >> well, one, one, we have -- >> one question. i could only speak for myself as a hispanic that voted for obama, but i'm not sure whether i did it because i was scared the bejesus out of the romney campaign or whether i did it for love of what the democrats have done for hispanics. and i guess my question for roberto is, i mean, can you quantify these sentiments, the fear of the republican party versus the love of the democratic agenda and to what extent those different approaches inform the way that the different campaigns might go after the hispanic vote in the future? >> that's a great question. the woman in front of you in the red shirt. please identify yourself. andrea barron, yes, andrea barron, george mason university. yes, i'm wondering whether you think the latino position on abortion is more like that of joe biden who said he personally opposes abortion but he would not impose his views on the rest of the country, or whether they're more similar to paul ryan who believes that his particular religious views should be imposed on the rest of the country who might not share them?

>> okay, tricky. the man right here in the white shirt. you guys -- you're going to have to put all this together fast. >> my name is [unintelligible]. i have a concern that republicans -- like, i did vote for barack obama four years ago but this time not because i think he betrayed most of his promises, and i would like to see his nobel prize withdrawn too. this would be the first recall of a nobel prize. given that i think that republicans should move, in my opinion, to the left of democrats, which means you've got to get rid of your right- wing fascists you have in the party, and that's the only way to win and i hope -- >> what's your question? what's your question? >> so, my question is will the country move just like we gave

george bush two terms even though he had screwed up after the four year? is it that if hillary clinton runs as a democrat she will get the big hammer for all the failures of the obama administration and the republicans will by default win? >> the last question -- well, we have lots of questions still. let's take this around and then see if we have some time left over. try to -- we do only have a few minutes so treat this as your -- yes, treat this as your last word to see what you want to say. [laughter] [talking simultaneously] >> do you want me to start? >> yes. >> well on the question of dealing with mexico, you know, you can imagine a situation particularly if there is some kind of movement on some kind of legislation here where there 59 are conversations with mexico about security and immigration, and particularly central america and migration through mexico

which is -- i think there is likely to be increase in traffic is going to come through -- there are already signs this year of really substantially mounting migration that some of those countries are disintegrating. mexico -- there are conversations through the new administration, they have really great concerns about having essentially failed states next to them and looking to the u.s. for help in dealing with them. that could be a way of -- right now there's ground there and there are, you know, at the government ministerial level there is thought being put into how you approach that. there are think tanks working on it. we'll see if that agenda develops. the fear/love question with latinos, you know, i this vote has to be disaggregated and a

big chunk of it has to be set off to one side. i'd say 50% of it, maybe 55% of it that's just not going to be in play. >> what do you mean? >> the puerto rican voters in new jersey, new york, connecticut, massachusetts are a very -- they're among the most liberal democratic voters there are. they voted for obama 80, 90%. they were the most vocal democratic constituency opposed to the war in iraq in 2003. veryn, they're a distinctive part of our political landscape. they're not going to change. latino democrats in coastal california, it's just really hard to see where you get -- republicans can hope to get more than 25 or 30% out of that big chunk. in the rio grande valley in

texas, in chicago and its suburbs you're starting to talk -- it starts to add up. i think in cuba a new dynamic has set in. i think obama's opening of travel to cuba has totally changed the game for the way cubans think about it. so you're talking about large chunks of this electorate that are solidly democratic and there's a solid base there, so the game has been and will continue to be about a fairly small margin of this electorate in key places. >> okay. >> i'll do these as quickly as i can. i'm still enjoying what happened in november of 2012 to think about november 2016. so, i'll skip on that one. a two word answer to your question, joe biden, which is a segue over to your question -- i would take exception with the premise of your question in terms of the obama

administration not having a relationship with mexico. in my prior existence before my summer vacation i was the president's main latin american policy advisor at the white house for three and a half years. and this is kind of an anecdote and it over simplifies, but i had 34 countries that i was responsible for at the nsc. i visited no country more than -- no country other than one more than three times. i visited one country 17 times in the three and a half years that i was at the white house, and that country happens to be mexico. the intensity of the relationship between the two governments -- the prior government and now you've seen with peña nieto coming to meet the president just before his inaugural, vice president biden going to the inaugural, and this vice president doesn't go to a lot of inaugurations so i think you should read into that. there's an intensity of a relationship between the governments of the united states and mexico across a broad range of issues. the media focuses on security questions but it goes a lot further than that. so i think you will see that continuing. immigration's a complicated question to deal with in the

bilateral context. i think president vicente fox of mexico kind of learned a lesson -- a political lesson in mexico of staking too much on affecting the immigration debate in the united states over something that he really couldn't affect and paid a political price at home for failure to deliver something that was never in his power to deliver, which was comprehensive immigration reform in the united states. i think peña nieto has learned that lesson, and i don't think you'll see him being particularly assertive of what should happen in the legal construct in the united states. i think you're exactly right that the question of transmigration has the mexican government -- the prior mexican government and this mexican government very concerned and they are looking at the problem in a very 61 different way than they traditionally have. what comes of that, how you wrestle with it, that's not clear. i think that will be part of the conversation between the two governments. central america, i know, is a part of the conversation and has been for several years between the two governments and will

continue to be. so i think there is a very intense relationship between the government of the united states and the government of mexico across a broad range of issues. on the particulars of what an immigration deal in the united states looks like, i don't think you'll see a whole lot of public and, i think, even private interaction on that question. >> you want to say a quick last word on the latino vote? >> actually, let me go to [unintelligible] question. i think it is really hard to disarticulate what happened in that sense. there was clearly concern, again, going back to the brand problem that republicans have, of what a republican victory would mean for latino voters, but there was also, i think, a growing recognition among latinos that they were part of a coalition, that they were wanted, and they were included, and they really were part of a going forward vision. which one and where factored more, hard to say, but i think therein lies the lesson of this election from a political

standpoint. the inclusion in a very real way -- and i think this is a two-way street actually. organized political latinos also have to think about what they do now. do they do their own thing or do they incorporate themselves in multiple places into the coalition here in washington and across the country, and i think that'll have a lot to say about the shape of latino politics moving forward, whether it really takes on this coalition nature or whether it's still this other that has a, you know, a variable relationship, and it may very well be that there are different answers to that at different levels of government. >> different today. >> well, very quickly, i agree with the issue of mexico. sadly, in 2000 we thought before 9/11 that we were going to move immediately on immigration reform.

the relationship with president fox was extraordinary, very, very close. after 9/11 it took a hit because of mexico's position on a number of issues including the effort in iraq. however, i think the relationship continued to be very intense. i don't think -- i think most experts would agree that the relationship with mexico has weakened dramatically. i think that -- well, perhaps dan would -- [talking simultaneously] >> but i just don't see the same type of rapport or relationship with mexico that we had under the bush administration. i mean, how the fast and furious thing was handled -- i mean, it was president calderon himself who criticized the u.s. for that whole botched effort. on abortion, i will say that poll after poll, every single

study that i've seen with the exception of the exit polling shows that the majority, the majority, of latinos believe that abortion should be illegal compared to 40% of the rest of the population, so i think they would agree with mr. ryan, which is the position of the catholic church and the christian churches which means that the churches have a lot of influence in the latino vote. then, finally, on the latino vote. look, it's really hard to say. again, we're not a monolithic community, and i think, as dan has said and roberto, i think both parties, but i think the republican party has to do a major effort -- overhaul of its efforts towards latinos and begin now. they cannot wait until the election. it has to be an ongoing effort, but going after not only about immigration but about every single other issue explaining why conservative policies are good for latinos. i don't believe at the end, like governor romney said, that latinos voted for president

obama because of gifts. i honestly don't think it because of obamacare or anything else. i think it had to do a lot with immigration and the lack of inclusion in efforts towards hispanics. >> great. so, thank you very much. thank you -- i apologize to those of you who didn't get to ask a question. i think the speakers will be around for a few minutes. you know, i love the fear and love question. i mean, it really, i think, gets to a lot of -- you know, politics are about issues in a way we've parsed this out so well. politics are about issues, politics are about outreach and the machine, politics in this case is about this one big issue that we've got to get off the table, but really what this is about is the future and how dynamic this is and how both parties, particularly republicans i'm afraid, have a lot of work to do. so, thank you all so much for being here. thank you to three terrific panelists and two other, all five terrific panelists. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

>> said the state department says have the secretary of state hillary clinton sustained a concussion after thinking. she will work from home next week. congressional aides do not expected to testify been thursday that congressional hearings on the september 11 attack on an outpost in libya that killed four americans including the u.s. ambassador. the department says the secretary was dehydrated because of a virus, and fainted, causing a concussion. flags are at half staff around the country to honor the victims of the connecticut school shooting happened yesterday. speaker john boehner announced that republicans would not do their address this weekend so the president could speak for the country. here is the president's weekly

address. >> friday, we learned that more than two dozen people were killed when a gunman opened fire in an elementary school in new tiwn connecticut. most of them were just young children. among the fallen were also teachers, men and women who devoted their lives to help our children. our hearts are broken and we grieve with the families of those who lost, and keep in our prayers the families with those that survive. as blessed as they are, they know that child innocents has been torn away far too early. as a nation, we have endured far too many tragedies -- the school in connecticut, the shopping mall in oregon, the house of worship in wisconsin, the movie theater in colorado,

countless street corners in places like chicago and philadelphia. we have to come together, and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this from happening, regardless of politics. this weekend, michele and i are doing what i know every parent is doing, holding our children as close as we can and reminding them a much we love them. there are families in connecticut that cannot do that today. they need all of us right now, because while nothing can take the place of the lost child or a loved one, all of us can extend a hand to those in need to remind them that we are there for them and we are praying for them the love that they felt for those they lost in door's not only in their own memory, but also in their countries. thank you, and god bless you. >> flags, again, flying have

staffed here in the nation's capital. reactions have come in worldwide with condolences from australia, great britain, thailand, the philippines, members of the european union and other countries. we spoke with connecticut congressman jim time on this morning's "washington journal." >> among the many statements put out yesterday by congressmen and senators was this from representative jim himes in connecticut, replacing -- releasing a statement saying the "words cannot express the sadness and horror i feel at the horrendous shootings in connecticut.

host: representative himes joins us by phone. where were you when you first heard about the shooting? guest: i was in washington. host: you are in the fourth district. this was in the fifth district, correct? the coat the town is just across the line to the fifth district, currently represented by chris murphy. it is part of fairfield county, just across the line from my district. host: your thoughts on the safety of the children going to school there? guest: that is a question on every parent's mind today. , and one of the interesting

aspects of yesterday's events was set the school recently installed a security system that required an individual to be a must in, and this individual, apparently wearing camouflage and a desk, and presumably arm, was bosnian, but the end of the day, you'll understand that a highly determined individual, an armed individual is going to gain access to whatever. the individual wants to gain access to. while i think we need to look at what happened specific in this school, we will not turn our schools into military bases, so we need to look beyond some of the issues people are talking about, the availability of firearms in our society. these shooters seem to have something in common. we talked a lot about mental health. none of them, appear to be so

disturbed that they were institutionalized, or obviously mentally challenged, but all of them look to have been alienated, isolated and perhaps angry. maybe we as a society can do better understanding that people that we might just think of as weird or outsiders, that is something that we need to take more seriously than we do. it's all part of the discussion, and you brought it up, deals with gun-control. we have this item from "politico," and one of your fellow representatives, carolyn mccarthy of new york. in the headline, she says i will embarrass obama on gun control.

host: has a democrat, would you support more pressure for more gun control? guest: i am actually the co- sponsor of the bill to restrict the use of high-capacity magazines, and i do support her efforts. this is a silly and ridiculous conversation we have. we are already talking about the fact that the individual who shot the children in the school system was breaking all kinds of laws. people say the problem is not the law. the problem is we have to many, too dangerous, too easy of access to guns, and as a second amendment supporter, i can tell you most americans believe in

the right to bear arms, but are also common sense " people who say you do not need military hardware, which has no purpose. this is why the legislation like banning high capacity magazines make sense. you do not need to go after a deer or protect your home. this is an area where unfortunately the political debate, and you bring in the nra, is so removed from the basic common sense of most americans who understand that if you are responsible, careful, and you are not disturbed, you should be allowed to have weapons that are appropriate. our society is a wash with weapons. different states have different laws. it is not that hard to go to virginia from connecticut, by a

weapon and bring it back. of course you are violating a law, but if we do not have that discussion, we have this incredibly disappointing and disheartening grief of -- outpouring of grief followed by no action. host: in "the washington post" we have this online he says -- do you think battle lines are being drawn, as to how democrats and republicans are going to respond to this in the new year?

well, it is not just democrats and republicans. this is a debate where democratic people believe there should be no more gun control laws. to some extent, kathy is right, the laws are there. they were here in the state of connecticut. the assault weapon was not legal in the legal of -- state of connecticut. if the suspect was too young to have any of the weapons. it is not just about the laws, however, you hear in the background, already the tragedy here, which is let's be careful, when you do not here is an immediate call to action. frankly, as someone who lives 20 miles from where the tragedy happened, did not tell me how

sympathetic you are, how devastated you are unless you are willing to follow that up with a serious discussion. we do not need to start by assuming anything, that we need better laws. did not tell me that unless you are willing to actually do something about the weekly tragedies. host: did you know any people that have been effected by this tragedy, and the parents of kids that go to that school, teachers or administrators? -- guest: it is early to tell. my family has friends there. it is not clear if any of the people that i personally know were effected, but this is a small town. it is an area where one school plays the other in baseball, or cross country, so we are a tight-knit community appear, and unfortunately this is not just

going to effect the people of new town, but the people brought the country. host: we have been talking with representative jim himes, democrat of connecticut, representing the fourth district areas. thank you for being on the program. he called thank you. >> here in washington, flags will continue to fly at half staff until sunset, december 18. tonight, we will take a look at some of the farewell speeches by and tributes to outgoing members of the house and senate including richard lugar. that begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. monday, harvard university president drew faus sett immigration problems are a human rights issue. and he -- and expressed the need

for reforms. this is about 40 minutes. >> s. washington is focused on the fiscal cliff, one might wonder why we are having a conference on around innovation. we have been focused on long- term competitiveness, making sure the united states is maintaining its edge in the global economy, and the role as an innovation economy to a central to the competitiveness, but that has not happened by happenstance. there are decisions in the public sector that have been critical to that success. as we look at the questions are

wrong the united states, fiscal discipline and the fiscal cliff, or the curve, or whenever, the term, we wanted to make sure that we have some discussion about the investments we have made, and also the role of issues that are not always at the forefront. the vital role that america's universities have played, the fact that our places of higher learning are the best in the world and people from around the world want to come to be the next generation of entrepreneurs because of our system of education. the fact that we have brands like google, which are worldwide, and the role of investment and research the has

played a vital role to what we call the innovations ecosystem. that ecosystem is vital in the united states, but it can be fragile if we make long-term decisions with that in mind, we're having this discussion today. we are excited by this conversation i will start with a conversation with president faust of harvard, then we will have a panel led by al hunt of the bloomberg news, and of many years in storage in washington. that panel will be joined. by an understanding of

technology companies in the global economy and the united states economy and jonathan marina, who is a senior fellow who has written extensively about the united states investment, and what it has meant for us on a host of issues we will start with a conversation with drew faust. she is a woman leader of one of our finest institutions. she is a woman leader. we have been focused on women's leadership. she has been at harvard since 2007. before that she was at the

university of pennsylvania for 25 years. her academic career has focused on the civil war and the american south. she has been a prominent historian. as the president of harvard, she is focused on ensuring that there is education opportunity for all, for insuring that harvard remains diverse on every level and harvard remains the place that is attracting the best in the united states regardless of background as well in the world. she has spoken eloquently about the role that harvard plays not only in insuring educational leadership but our economic leadership as well. with that i would like to invite drew up. [applause] >> thank you for being here.

>> my pleasure. >> let's start on the topic of innovation and harvard role with in it. i think of harvard and other university is planning two roles. you are teaching the next generation of entrepreneurs and your professors of making those discoveries. how do you see both of those layers? how do you see harvard's role of trading the next generation of leaders and discoverers? are you optimistic about harvard continuing that role?

>> we have a lot of students who are making innovations. i think the two roles are blending. as they think about this moment, he talked about the moment where education is scrutinizing its investment in policy. to think about what higher education has been in need to be as we move through this decision making. we are the beneficiaries. this included the decision to invest scientific research with universities. also the bill that says we are going to be a broadly educated population that values private education as a fundamental aspect. i think we have seen the results and what our country has become. also the kind of social

mobility that these policies represent. as we think about these dimensions now, and there are two categories that you defined. how can we even expand on a country for individuals across the nation that had to make college affordable? had we make college imaginable? by that i mean students in secondary or primary schools that make it a priority. how do you make sure they have the choices that we would like to strengthen the economic foundation and also enable them to be the kind of innovators that will build a dynamic economy?

that is related to the research role on universities and how we are so dependent on support. at harvard we get a substantial support for scientific enterprise every year. we have about $700 million a year. out of that come the discoveries that make the future possible. last year harvard faculty applied for 197 patents. they founded 10 companies. just last year. it is not discovery that is important. it can have an impact. citing patent in companies gives only a small picture of the importance of science and research universities. a lot of what they do is very

basic discovery that one not generate a patent for a company. it will be the patent of discoveries 10 years from now. nixon's war on cancer yielded knowledge that enabled us to combat it. if we said to not look beyond the blinkered focus we would greatly limit the long term. this is something we need to think about the longer-term future. we need to have a balance of educating the individuals who will be the innovators and the ecosystem in which they can begin to discover even as they are freshmen in college.

we get our students into the laboratories. the way to keep them in science is to have them be part of the research enterprise. there is a smooth transition for these kids we hope. >> i think that is a really important point. there's been so much discussion where we're feeling very constrained by choices at the federal level. there are discussions making sure investments are targeted and things that will produce economic benefits.

to some degree there is a concern that will leave of the honorable some of the investment in the most basic research. you cannot immediately see the impact of those kinds of investments. at the same time, it a benefit from the basic research because there's something that happens. do you hear a concern about basic research? why should every day americans be concerned with these reserve funds? there are questions about medicare or social security or public education. >> it is so important for the universities to keep on two tracks. the one that is in the forefront. we have seen engineering at harvard grow dramatically. it is a field that is at the

forefront and making those translations. we have had a doubling in undergraduates that are concentrating on engineering. it has a real efflorescence of it. you can have the experience. they make a company, they haven't even graduated yet, and they go on to better things. i do this once a month. i invite 15 faculty to come to the building and sit around a table. most of them had not known each other before. the group happened by chance to include a nobel prize winner in

medicine from our hospital. he was a member of our medical school. i see what is on your mind? they wanted to tell me how hard it was to get support for basic big question research. when grant applications were evaluated they were pressed to have a narrow a focus as possible to say exactly what the great was going to enable them to discover. they set off the we know before we even started. if you have a really big question, it is much harder to do that. i think that is very frightening. i was at an event on friday. one of our extraordinary young investigators who was just on tenure last year was talking about how the general studies in human development and

embryology have been the basis for so many transitional discoveries in his field. he's trying to make the link between questions or one whenever make. we make sure for our grandchildren we have established the foundation. other questions that research will then apply realities and discoveries. it is a problem if we just deliver on what is immediately visible and we do not look more long term. it ought to emphasize.

>> of is in on the other set of issues, how do we continue making the investments in other is? are you optimistic about what we can do? >> i am always optimistic. my tips can continue to do their work. the larger question asked about what we need to look at, we need to ask a lot of questions about our system and say that is

the foundation for higher education for those who will be innovators in the future. the harvard business school last your did a competitiveness survey. they found higher education institutions or america's greatest asset. they found one of the highest concerns of the many leaders in business that they serve it was the state of k-12 education which was seen as a huge disadvantage in american competitiveness. students who are coming to college, 43% are not ready for college in one field or another. universities need to do considerable remedial work

before they can even start the students on the treasury to what a college education should be. how do we begin to address the challenges that this has had a number of exciting innovations? they are trying to in able research, uniting that with business school faculty that shows how you lead an organization like a school district or school. and what they can add to train educational leaders who can transform systems. this has been a popular degree. it has wonderful candidates who go through its. this is just one contribution our school is making and others

as well. we need across the country to have a unified approach to the policy that is embedded in our k-12 system. >> we did a report last year a few months ago about china and india's investment, the rapid level in which they are investing from pre-k through college. there will have more in china and any of them the entire u.s. work force. we're focused on a global economy. those from harvard are

competing globally with students from china, germany, brazil. tavis that transform the way we think about education? do you think your role as straining american leaders? are you looking at attracting global leaders? >> there are so many questions. let me address a few of them. there are numerous kind of statistics that we have a preeminence of college graduates in our populations and levels of participation. we are losing this. we have once last three of the world's college graduates. that is an interesting

illustration of a shift in the dynamism. i see this when i travel. a huge commitment to public resources. huge energy to enthusiasm of higher education. india wants 1500 new universities by 2020. alicia's in a meeting about hong kong this week. i learned that hong kong university is expanding undergraduate education from three years to four years because they think it is not giving students enough time. there are all these buildings going up. here we are being told in the united states that maybe we should reduce ourselves from

four years to three years. another aspect. let me insert here so much of what our discussion is about. with travel to india and china ever was to hear about the liberal arts. they want to introduce a broader education into their countries. they think that the ability to imagine, it to be creative, and to envision a world differently relates to understanding other places and people. these are so much a part of the humanities and social sciences. it is the whole panoply of the liberal arts. this is under tremendous pressure. there are recognizing this advantage. why